Jerry Garcia 70's tone

[gr8fl4295]

Anyone out there have a preset for Jerry Garcia's 70's tone?
Thanks.

[carlaz]

There's a Jerry preset in the Preset Xchange that is basically the Mutron clone pedal model in front of a Twin Reverb. Simple, but Jerryish.

I'm not sure how would would best simulate the use of the McIntosh power amp and JBL speakers that he eventually was using with the (silverface) Fender Twin preamp ... Throw in some other fancy Class A power amp model, like from the THD? And mess around with different speakers?

Still ... I would think that Fender Twin with "Nutron" preset would get into the ballpark!

[gr8fl4295]

Thanks for the reply!

[carlaz]

"Furthur" (har!) to this, there is quite a lot (not surprisingly) of info and discussion scattered around the Internet about Jerry's gear and tone. For example, you can pretty readily tracks down discussions on other forums about his Mu-Tron III settings, and while I think some uncertainty must remain on the details, what I learned there did suggest that the "Nutron" settings on the preset in the Preset XChange might not be the most accurate. You would have to do your own digging and messing around to see what you think.

Equally, Jerry's gear changed a lot over the years, so it will depend a bit on what your favorite Jerry tone is, or whether you are kinda mixing and matching to create Frankenstein Jerry vibe. I like the tones from his various periods with single coil, P-90, and humbucking pickups (leaving aside all the funky on-board electronics installed at various times), but I only have a humbucking guitar, so compromise is inevitably required!

I still tend to think that the Fender '65 Twin Reverb model is a good start. One might try swapping out the power-amp with something more like a Class A or maybe even the plain Solid State model, and one might try different cabs ... Something open-backed with JBLs might be best, but there's no such model at present, so you'll have to experiment. Jerry's basic tone always seems to have been pretty clean, then colored by pedals as required. In the '70s, besides the (in)famous Mu-Tron III (and the Mu-Tron Octave Divider), he used a number of MXR pedals at various times, including the Distortion+, the Analog Delay, the Phase 100 ... the latter is in AT as the Phazer 10. In the '80s he famously used the same Boss HM-2 pedal that found favor with Swedish death metalers (though, ah, not to generate the same tones ) which is in AT as the Metal Distortion 2. The '80s generally saw a move to Boss effects (e.g. Boss Octave Divider), though always with some weird custom stuff in the background. Still, for pedals, I think the envelope filter, a distortion/overdrive box, and perhaps a delay of some sort will get into the zone. In the early '70s, about the only effects were a wah, either Vox or Colorsound, I think.

But, for example, Steve Kimock -- who is pretty knowledgeable on Jerry's tone -- is on record as saying he's tried the exact Jerry rig and gets an awful sound, whereas he gets closer to the tone by doing all the gear "backwards" (e.g. "one piece lightweight alder body, weak single coils, really heavy strings, low powered stereo rig, altecs, celestions, stuff like that"). So go figure!

[brianbane]

If someone gets an epic Space Jam going, I'd love to hear it!

[carlaz]

Actually, one of the greatest challenges I find in "sounding like Jerry" is that one really needs the rest of the Grateful Dead backing you! But, seriously, it's not just Jerry soloing for 20 minutes -- it's the whole band soloing for 20 minutes. People just only paid attention to the lead guitar, as usual ...

If I try to sound like Jerry over a backing track, I sound like ... some hack with an envelope filter trying to imitate Jerry over a backing track.

[obitheincredible]

So true, when the BAND was in a groove, Jerry was. Its hard to recreate that without everyone backing you and helping create the pocket that can only be done live.

[hermybear2002]

Being a deadhead since 1980 and seeing Jerry over 300 times with both the Dead and JGB, i have to say Jerry has several signature tones from his tight, ripping lows to his pristinely clear rainlike highs...all while using a unity-gain buffer. When i had my analog rig (over 400lbs) i had every piece of equipment Jerry had ever used, including 2 of what i consider the best reverb unit ever built, the Butler RT921 tubed stereo reverb units in my rack. i own a vintage Mutron III and no matter how i treak the AT3 version, i cannot get the jerry 'bwop' without dramatically adjusting input/output signals and the effect's "channel" signal. I still use the AT3 Mutron for other tonal capacities (take too long to explain, lol) but i can't obtain that Jerry "fire on the mountain" or "shakedown street" bwop with just the Mutron alone. Having met Jerry in 1988, I will say this...he was a rocket scientist when it came to sound & electronics...

[carlaz]

OK, so you clearly know your way around this stuff far better than I! So ... I gotta ask: got any tricks for getting that "Jerry 'bwop'" out of the Nu-Tron III model and other Amplitube gear? Heaven knows, that "Estimated Fire Shaketone" kinda sound is entirely classic! Not that I'd ever nail it with my fingers, regardless of the gear but some gear-based tricks wouldn't go amiss. Have you uploaded any presets of your own devising?

[tlawton3]

New here, so apologies for newby question, but where is the preset xchange?
Thanks.

[tlawton3]

New here, so apologies for newby question, but where is the preset xchange?
Thanks.

[carlaz]

http://www.ikmultimedia.com/userarea/preset-xchange/

[tlawton3]

Thank you, & apologies for the double post.

[hermybear2002]

Sorry for the delay Carl - I just started working on Nutron III sound(s) again so I haven't posted anything yet. The first thing I can add, though, is the use of a 7-band eq after the Nutron. In order to get the 'bwap' sound, you need to drive the Nutron. This usually results in overpeak of the output signal. I have the gain somewhere between 4-5, the peak somewhere between 3-4 and the filter on LP. By placing an eq after i can drop the highs and the gain thereby reducing the distortion in the output. I have tried with an OR120, JetCity & SLO, Fender Twin (Jerry) and my favorite Anger (Engl) and it seems to get most of the spectrum. I play through a Gary L Jacobs guitar with HBs (here is a pic from the late Ed Roman's site of my guitar: http://www.edroman.com/guitars/jacobs.htm). Once I get it better dialed in, I'll add a 7-band to the front end; that should better pinpoint the frequency I'm trying to envelope. I'll post or provide you with the settings once I have them dialed in.

[carlaz]

Nice guitar! I remember reading about the Gary Jacobs guitars a couple of years ago, cruising around on the Ed Roman site ... but that was back when I lived in the UK and the pound was strong!

Good point about the need to drive the Nu-tron model -- and putting an EQ afterwards to bring the gain etc. back down is a clever solution.

I look forward to hearing more about your experiments with this and hopefully seeing some presets eventually. Notes about how much drive that Nutron will need will still be useful to get the settings right for the output from my pickups (also HBs, but there's a lot of variation in the world of HBs!)